|
|
Post by catfishkailen on Jul 20, 2020 20:56:18 GMT -4
How exactly does Artillery work on the map? I've been gandering around the rules but have been unable to find anything.
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jul 20, 2020 23:03:55 GMT -4
Each type of artillery has a traditional range of a set number of 16 x 17 hex map boards in standard BattleTech rules, which have been scaled up to represent one of the 100 x 100 hex maps used to represent a single strategic map square/tile.
Thumper - Range 21 tiles (63km in game scale) - Damage 15/5 (Direct Hit/1 Hex Away splash damage)
Sniper - Range 18 tiles (54km in game scale) - Damage 20/10 (Direct Hit/1)
Long Tom - Range 30 tiles (90km in game scale) - Damage 30/20/10 (Direct Hit/1/2)
Arrow IV - Range 8/9 tiles (IS/Clan) (24/27km in game scale) - Damage 20/10 (Direct Hit/1)
(*One tile represents 3km^2)
These map board ranges will therefore stay the same. Artillery can be used in battle on any map square within their given range but requires being placed at the correct distance off-board during play meaning travel times are in effect. Artillery alone can not “start” a MegaMek battle to saturate a known position of enemies but requires at least one friendly scout or other unit present on the targeted map square to be utilized. Should that spotter unit or the last friendly unit be destroyed or immobilized the artillery can no longer fire on enemies. Furthermore no more than four artillery pieces can be used at one time/per engagement in MegaMek to avoid artillery spamming.
|
|
|
|
Post by FractalForce (FF) on Jul 25, 2020 9:26:28 GMT -4
What is the range of the Cruise Missiles, I see they come available as turrets.
|
|
VonMountain
Groombridge Directorate
Mountain, King of Hills
Posts: 36
|
Post by VonMountain on Jul 25, 2020 10:00:52 GMT -4
CM (cruise missile)
CM/50: range 50
CM/70: range 90
CM/90: range 120
CM/120: range 150
Some pretty good range I would say.
|
|
garyp
Junior Member
Posts: 71
|
Post by garyp on Jul 25, 2020 14:52:37 GMT -4
Great range and damage, but balanced by the cruise missiles traveling slower than artillery shells. Flight time is 1+(Mapsheets/5), so at maximum range a CM/120 has a flight time of about 30 turns. Admittedly most shots are likely to be at much shorter ranges than that, but I would expect flight times of several turns for most uses. Also the missiles are expensive at 20,000 c-bills a shot for the little CM/50 up to 140,000 for a CM/120.
The CM/90s and CM/120s keep tempting me with their massive damage and blast radius, on par with an orbit-to-surface strike from a capital scale PPC, but they are going to be an expensive waste if the target has moved away from the impact point or if the battle is over before the missile arrives. The Kalki does provide the option to purchase a mobile CM/50 launch vehicle, but a single missile seems unlikely make a decisive contribution to a battle.
|
|
|
|
Post by keeperkomando on Jul 27, 2020 11:55:03 GMT -4
I never knew that about cruise missiles, probably because I never knew those existed either! I think it would be a good idea to go make a missile Frigate now...
|
|
|
|
Post by catfishkailen on Aug 5, 2020 14:37:13 GMT -4
Two questions after messing around in Megamek.
1) Let's say I have a lance of artillery in direct support of my engagements. If one of my 'mechs mounts an Arrow IV, do I lose one of my offboard artillery?
2) When placing units off board, do we calculate "tiles" and then multiply by 17 to determine off grid maps, since we've expanded boards to 100x100?
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Aug 6, 2020 6:52:59 GMT -4
How we have been dealing with artillery is translating the off-board ranges from the 16x17 size boards directly to the 100x100 boards.
Thus,
Snipers have a max range of 18 100x100 strategic map tiles away.
Thumpers have a max range of 21 100x100 strategic map tiles away.
Long Toms have a max range of 30 100x100 strategic map tiles away.
Arrow IV/V has a max range of 8/9 (IS/Clan) 100x100 strategic map tiles away.
You may have only 4 off-board artillery participating in any one battle, obviously you can have more than 4 off-board artillery owned however. In direct battles (ie artillery present on the board), you may have as many artillery present as you like, just understand how inaccurate artillery is at "Level 4" and realize you risk killing your own units too. This means you can have your Arrow IV mech and 4 other off-board units. The idea behind the "limit" on artillery is to make sure players aren't overwhelmed by things they can't fight back against. If the artillery are targets on the board however, then they can be destroyed, and often they have weak armor with little movement.
|
|
|
|
Post by catfishkailen on Aug 6, 2020 14:38:48 GMT -4
(Thus)
I'm just trying to get the megamek math right. So lets say I'm 8 tiles away. In our game that correlates to 800 hexes, but when place distance on megamek I would do 17*8 for 136 tiles away.
(You)
Aha perfect understanding.
To negate that very aspect, heavy use of tag and copperhead rounds.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Aug 6, 2020 15:53:28 GMT -4
catfishkailen: In terms of MegaMek math 1 hex = 30 meters; therefore 100 hexes = 3 km; so yes you are correct, outside of MegaMek 1 map tile = 3 km^2 thus a distance of 8 map tiles is 800 hexes or 24 km. I misread some of your post or started typing an answer and skipped the rest earlier. What we did for Alpha play was take the ranges for the 17x16 stand map boards and simply use them for the 100x100. If the range of a Sniper artillery was eighteen (18) 17x16 boards before, it is now eighteen (18) 100x100 boards, effectively increasing their range. So yes, the example of 17*8 is how we are conducting this.
|
|
|
|
Post by catfishkailen on Aug 6, 2020 17:58:16 GMT -4
Thank you. I am now in full understandment.
|
|
|
|
Post by mausgmr on Sept 1, 2020 8:40:33 GMT -4
I had an arty match today - checked my settings and they were as per the rules.
I had 100 auto hit hexes to select. Is this correct?
Also, how is the strat map distance being calculated? on my count it was 6 diagonal and 11 following the standard rules for troop movement ie straight lines only no diagonals.
Interestingly, being at max range, I only got the target units within 17 hexes of my board edge.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Sept 1, 2020 10:04:41 GMT -4
You shouldn't get 100 auto hit hexes.... That seems too excessive.
I am not using direct diagonals, but more like overlaying a ruler on the screen to form a straight line and counting map tiles as they extend outward in the needed direction. Something like right, up, up, right, up, right, up, up, right, etc. for example. Thus 9 tiles.
17*9=153 hexes (Therefore some units are set to max range before they reach max range on the strategic map for our purposes.)
If you say it is only allowing you to target units 17 hexes into your 100x100 map then we will have to adjust in the future to make sure it covers your entire area, so that 153 hexes might be 53 then.
|
|
|
|
Post by catfishkailen on Sept 1, 2020 10:16:18 GMT -4
Can confirm I get 100 auto on a 100x100
10 on a 30x30
|
|
|
|
Post by mausgmr on Sept 1, 2020 15:57:39 GMT -4
I finished the mission with good success, accounting for the 17 hex limit. One thing I thought was odd was the arrow iv's landed in one turn though, is that correct?
I think the number of auto hit hexes is something to do with the way it calculated the 10 auto hit hexes per area.
Also strangely, it was giving me an auto hit hex on the last hex I blind fired towards, even if it didn't hit. Typically I'm used to those auto hit hexes only showing up on a successful blind fire shot which needs a roll of like 11
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Sept 3, 2020 15:42:53 GMT -4
Repeated shots to the same area will increase your odds of hitting until it is an auto success. As for the 100 auto hit hexes, ok then, I guess that is true. Although I would say it should only be like 10 or 20 max. I know this is new as we didn't use such large maps during Alpha.
|
|
|
|
Post by mausgmr on Sept 27, 2020 4:49:04 GMT -4
Did we come up with a setting alteration to stop the 100 auto hit hexes?changing it from 10 to 1 per grid tile should do the trick
|
|
|
|
Post by catfishkailen on Sept 27, 2020 22:30:41 GMT -4
5 Pre designated targets for every four mapsheets. Since our 100x100 boards are approximately ~32 mapsheets we should only be getting 45 pre designates.
Per tac ops page 180.
Since we are provided with 100 pre designates and the ability to press DONE whenever, It's just up to the player to calculate how many he is supposed to receive and then only use that many.
|
|
|
|
Post by mausgmr on Sept 28, 2020 2:47:39 GMT -4
That's one way, but seen as though we can change a setting, I would think not leaving it up to the players would be best.
|
|
|
|
Post by catfishkailen on Sept 28, 2020 11:35:40 GMT -4
My bad, I misread your comment. Yes if it can be fixed settings by all means.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Sept 30, 2020 22:32:29 GMT -4
Yes this is a setting that can be changed in MegaMek, I was going to say leave it with 10, but I will allow for up to 31 max. Why 31? Because my cat said so.  |
|
|
|
Post by mausgmr on Oct 1, 2020 6:39:49 GMT -4
Thanks Kris,
On that basis, changing the value from 10 to 3 should provide 30 auto hit hexes on a 100x100 map, I belive.
Worth a test
|
|
|
|
Post by catfishkailen on Oct 1, 2020 11:34:27 GMT -4
40-50 would match better with board size.
There's a 10 thousand hexes to a board, one should be able to lock down one - two spots as excellent Target Reference Points for indirect fire without a spotter.
*edit* because math was never my strong suit!
|
|
VonMountain
Groombridge Directorate
Mountain, King of Hills
Posts: 36
|
Post by VonMountain on Oct 1, 2020 12:15:16 GMT -4
Aktually, *corrects glasses with one finger* we're playing on a ten-thousand hexes board as its a 100x100 hexes. So whilst declaring 100 hexes might seem as a lot it is only 1% percent of the board. Depending on which arty you uses you can effectively damage the board on atleast 7% of the hexes upwards to the entire board.
I do agree with the sentiment that it needs to be lowered. Picking all 100 hexes takes a while and around 40 should be enough for most situations.
|
|
|
|
Post by mausgmr on Oct 1, 2020 14:28:22 GMT -4
40—50 feels excessive. A lot of these battles are going to take place when forces bump into each other, so is it realistic to think that forces are able to preallocate targets for terrain they haven't explored yet?
I appreciate these maps are big, but it's likely battles are going to take place somewhere between the middle of the map edge the opposing forces start on. I'm pretty sure you could cover most if not all key terrain pieces with 40-50 hit locations.
I'd say, there's a reason copperhead and homing arrow rounds exist. If you want pretty good accuracy with artillery, that's the route to take.
On top of all this, awaiting for people to choose 40+ artillery auto hit makers will be a mind numbing waste of time.
Artillery really is very powerful in battletech. For the costs in cbills per unit, I don't think this level of consistent accuracy is justifiable.
|
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Oct 1, 2020 15:19:19 GMT -4
Mausgmr I agree, I was leaning towards 30 as being a higher number. When "ranging" artillery you pick key locations, this hillside, that fence, this treeline, that structure, etc. not every 30 meters up a slope or 50 meters across a field, then you would have dozens of little flags everywhere or something as a marker and the enemy would be aware something is amiss.
Not every part of a battle map is expected to be used, especially for land battles, as the entire point of the large maps is for air units that really need them or making sure scouting is valuable. So honestly as mentioned above combat is most likely to happen in and around the center, which drastically narrows where you would place per-designated zones leading to over-saturation of an area bordering on unrealistic expectations.
Also TAG, NARC, etc need to be useful for a reason.
Saturating an entire 40 to 50 hexes directly in front of a hill you are siting on when you know the enemy is approaching from X direction seems a little excessive for guaranteed hits. Artillery is by nature less accurate, there should be some drift, not a guarantee that anything in this 10x5 zone is a definite direct hit. 10 hexes being equal to 300 meters or 0.3km
|
|
|
|
Post by master on Oct 2, 2020 16:54:21 GMT -4
Thanks Kris, On that basis, changing the value from 10 to 3 should provide 30 auto hit hexes on a 100x100 map, I belive. Worth a test |
|
|
|
Post by master on Oct 2, 2020 16:55:10 GMT -4
please let me know the results of the test as I was given wayy more than 100 pre designated hexes when testing.
|
|
