Post by garyp on Jan 11, 2022 20:31:53 GMT -4
There has been discussion lately on the Discord server about increasing the c-bill cost of clan tech units on the mixed tech server, since base c-bill costs of units in Battletech don't reflect the superior capability of clan technology items. A couple of days another player on the Discord was after a unit summary in a convenient form and while trying to find something suitable for them I exported information from Solaris Skunkwerks that included the c-bill cost and BV2 of the mechs I had in that program. Since I had that info in a convenient form I have done a quick comparison of the ratio of Battle Value to C-Bill Cost for the units that I had in the table.
It isn’t a prefect measure of actually usefulness (light mechs with high damage output and slow mechs with cheap engines tend to have highest ratios) and doesn’t take into account a lot of things that are useful at the strategic level of the campaign, but it was a quick way to get a very rough feel for how much designs would contribute to a player’s force for the amount of c-bills spent. I ignored any Industrial Mechs, their typically low costs distorts the ratio in a way that doesn’t really represent their actual effectiveness. Mixed tech designs were treated as if they clan. I hadn’t updated the mech files in Solaris Skunkwerks since 2018 so the most recently introduced mechs aren’t included, but the roughly 2700 designs that were included should give a pretty accurate set of comparisons.
When I looked how many how mechs from each tech base were among the units with the highest ratios these were the results when clan tech mechs were at valued base c-bill cost, 150% cost and 133% cost.
Inner Sphere at Base Cost, Clan at Base Cost
[*] The 10 Mechs with Highest Ratio – All Clan Mechs
[*] The 25 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 23 Clan Mechs, 2 IS Mechs
[*] The 100 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 60 Clan Mechs, 40 IS Mechs
Only IS in Top 25 - Urbanmech UM-R70 and Fire Javelin JVN-11A.
Only Heavy in Top 25 - Galahad 3.
Heavies in Top 100 – Galahad 3, Rifleman IIC, Rifleman IIC 4, Galahad 2, Galahad GLH-2D, Rifleman IIC 5, Matador, Rifleman IIC 6.
Only Assault in Top 100 – Supernova 3.
I was little surprised at how many IS mech made the top 100, but looking at it closer almost all of the IS mechs in the top 100 were light mechs that were well gunned for their size like Mongeese, Commandos, Hollanders, Fire Javelins etc that tend have a high BV for small cost. Unsurprisingly lots of SFE mechs among the clan designs, but some were XL engined.
Inner Sphere at Base Cost, Clan at 150% Cost
[*] The 10 Mechs with Highest Ratio – All IS Mechs
[*] The 25 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 24 IS Mechs, 1 Clan Mech
[*] The 100 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 95 IS Mechs, 5 Clan Mechs
Only clan mech in Top 25 – Firemoth D.
Only heavy in Top 25 – Galahad GLH-2D.
Heavies in Top 100 – Galahad GLH-2D, Catapult CLPT-K4. No Assaults.
Inner Sphere at Base Cost, Clan at 133% Cost
[*] The 10 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 7 IS Mechs, 3 Clan Mechs
[*] The 25 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 21 IS Mechs, 4 Clan Mechs
[*] The 100 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 86 IS Mechs, 14 Clan Mechs
The Galahad GLH-2D was again the only heavy to break into the top 25.
Again the only heavies in the top 100 were the Galahad GLH-2D and Catapult CLPT-K4. The highest clan heavies were the Galahad 3 and Rifleman IIC at about 160ish on the list.
The Inner Sphere Galahad GLH-2D and Catapult CLPT-K4 heavies that keep showing up are both outlier designs, with twin head capping weapons that give a high BV while being rather slow with small standard fusion engines that give a very low cost for their size.
Interesting at 133% clan cost the highest ratio for an Inner Sphere assault and a Clan assault are pretty were practically identical, with the Annihilator ANH-1G at 0.2728 (296th on the list) and the Supernova 3 at 0.2727 (297th on the list).
—————————————————————————————————-
Since 133% seemed to have a good number of IS mechs without overly excluding the clan designs I had a closer look at the Galahad 2 at 133%, since that is one of the mechs that has significant potential to be unbalancing at the current costs.
—————————————————————————————————-
It isn’t a prefect measure of actually usefulness (light mechs with high damage output and slow mechs with cheap engines tend to have highest ratios) and doesn’t take into account a lot of things that are useful at the strategic level of the campaign, but it was a quick way to get a very rough feel for how much designs would contribute to a player’s force for the amount of c-bills spent. I ignored any Industrial Mechs, their typically low costs distorts the ratio in a way that doesn’t really represent their actual effectiveness. Mixed tech designs were treated as if they clan. I hadn’t updated the mech files in Solaris Skunkwerks since 2018 so the most recently introduced mechs aren’t included, but the roughly 2700 designs that were included should give a pretty accurate set of comparisons.
When I looked how many how mechs from each tech base were among the units with the highest ratios these were the results when clan tech mechs were at valued base c-bill cost, 150% cost and 133% cost.
Inner Sphere at Base Cost, Clan at Base Cost
[*] The 10 Mechs with Highest Ratio – All Clan Mechs
[*] The 25 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 23 Clan Mechs, 2 IS Mechs
[*] The 100 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 60 Clan Mechs, 40 IS Mechs
Only IS in Top 25 - Urbanmech UM-R70 and Fire Javelin JVN-11A.
Only Heavy in Top 25 - Galahad 3.
Heavies in Top 100 – Galahad 3, Rifleman IIC, Rifleman IIC 4, Galahad 2, Galahad GLH-2D, Rifleman IIC 5, Matador, Rifleman IIC 6.
Only Assault in Top 100 – Supernova 3.
I was little surprised at how many IS mech made the top 100, but looking at it closer almost all of the IS mechs in the top 100 were light mechs that were well gunned for their size like Mongeese, Commandos, Hollanders, Fire Javelins etc that tend have a high BV for small cost. Unsurprisingly lots of SFE mechs among the clan designs, but some were XL engined.
Inner Sphere at Base Cost, Clan at 150% Cost
[*] The 10 Mechs with Highest Ratio – All IS Mechs
[*] The 25 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 24 IS Mechs, 1 Clan Mech
[*] The 100 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 95 IS Mechs, 5 Clan Mechs
Only clan mech in Top 25 – Firemoth D.
Only heavy in Top 25 – Galahad GLH-2D.
Heavies in Top 100 – Galahad GLH-2D, Catapult CLPT-K4. No Assaults.
Inner Sphere at Base Cost, Clan at 133% Cost
[*] The 10 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 7 IS Mechs, 3 Clan Mechs
[*] The 25 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 21 IS Mechs, 4 Clan Mechs
[*] The 100 Mechs with Highest Ratio – 86 IS Mechs, 14 Clan Mechs
The Galahad GLH-2D was again the only heavy to break into the top 25.
Again the only heavies in the top 100 were the Galahad GLH-2D and Catapult CLPT-K4. The highest clan heavies were the Galahad 3 and Rifleman IIC at about 160ish on the list.
The Inner Sphere Galahad GLH-2D and Catapult CLPT-K4 heavies that keep showing up are both outlier designs, with twin head capping weapons that give a high BV while being rather slow with small standard fusion engines that give a very low cost for their size.
Interesting at 133% clan cost the highest ratio for an Inner Sphere assault and a Clan assault are pretty were practically identical, with the Annihilator ANH-1G at 0.2728 (296th on the list) and the Supernova 3 at 0.2727 (297th on the list).
—————————————————————————————————-
Since 133% seemed to have a good number of IS mechs without overly excluding the clan designs I had a closer look at the Galahad 2 at 133%, since that is one of the mechs that has significant potential to be unbalancing at the current costs.
At 133% the BV per C-bill ratio for the Galahad 2 will be about the same as the Inner Sphere Gallowglas GAL-2GLS, Maruader (Bounty Hunter 3015), Champion CHP-1Nb, Lineholder KW1-LH2 and Helios HEL-3D. A Galahad 2 would have a good chance of defeating any of those if it was just a 1-on-1 duel, but all those IS mechs are cheaper than the Galahad so a player opting to use IS designs similar to those in the campaign would have a greater total number of mechs than someone using lots of Galahad 2s.
Looking at what Inner Sphere mechs are available for a similar cost as a 133% Galahad 2, the big stand out is the Awesome AWS-11H which has an almost identical BV to the Galahad 2 (that is the triple HPPC Awesome with enough heatsinks be heat neutral when walking and firing all those HPPCs). The Gallowglas GAL-4GLS, at 1944BV, is also similarly priced.
At 133% the Galahad 2 would still be very effective heavy mech. At that cost it will better than most Inner Sphere heavy mechs, but players who are using the most powerful Inner Sphere mechs will have pretty much the same level advantage over the average Inner Sphere heavy.
—————————————————————————————————-
After comparing those three different costs for the clan mechs I’m personally leaning toward somewhere around 133% being the appropriate modifier. At 150% I feel that mixed tech players who chooses to focus on using clan designs are possibly going to be at a moderate disadvantage against players who are using lots of the most effective
Inner Sphere designs.
